tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post4690563383566035016..comments2023-10-23T12:23:54.134-05:00Comments on Larry James' Urban Daily: Inauguration Day, a father's letter and our communitiesLarry Jameshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06124477733714017000noreply@blogger.comBlogger61125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-64446896192823838152009-01-23T14:48:00.001-06:002009-01-23T14:48:00.001-06:00Jeff:Another Amen. My two cents worth:If you judg...Jeff:<BR/><BR/>Another Amen. My two cents worth:<BR/><BR/>If you judge Chrsitianity by the behavior of Christians, you will probably reach a negative conclusion. But I think this is true in many contexts. If you judge America by the specific behavior of Americans (or our govt), we are often found wanting.<BR/><BR/>But if you judge Christianity by its message, it holds up pretty well. Kind of like judging America by it's founding documents - in aspiration America is a pretty good place.<BR/><BR/>As G.K Chesterton said: "It is not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting. It is that Christianity has rarely been tried."<BR/><BR/>That said, anyone should be able to call anyone who claims to be a Christian to account for their actions and views when they are out of line with the faith.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-69049754225101065182009-01-23T14:48:00.000-06:002009-01-23T14:48:00.000-06:00Jeff:Another Amen. My two cents worth:If you judg...Jeff:<BR/><BR/>Another Amen. My two cents worth:<BR/><BR/>If you judge Chrsitianity by the behavior of Christians, you will probably reach a negative conclusion. But I think this is true in many contexts. If you judge America by the specific behavior of Americans (or our govt), we are often found wanting.<BR/><BR/>But if you judge Christianity by its message, it holds up pretty well. Kind of like judging America by it's founding documents - in aspiration America is a pretty good place.<BR/><BR/>As G.K Chesterton said: "It is not that Christianity has been tried and found wanting. It is that Christianity has rarely been tried."<BR/><BR/>That said, anyone should be able to call anyone who claims to be a Christian to account for their actions and views when they are out of line with the faith.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-38309922769061063102009-01-23T14:12:00.000-06:002009-01-23T14:12:00.000-06:00Amen Jeff!Amen Jeff!Mikeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09820485850335423536noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-53987103780029454622009-01-23T07:12:00.000-06:002009-01-23T07:12:00.000-06:00Wow! Well said, Jeff.Wow! Well said, Jeff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-63003625128272874802009-01-22T16:08:00.000-06:002009-01-22T16:08:00.000-06:00I have an ongoing interest in social justice, but ...I have an ongoing interest in social justice, but outside of the Christian context. My brother runs an orphanage in Guatemala, and suggested I'd find Larry's brans of Christianity refreshing, and I certainly do. Most American Christians are a stingy lot. The hardened opinions and unwillingness to not consider opposing viewpoints as other than those of the Antichrist are a sad commentary on many people who espouse Christ and then spew hatred.<BR/><BR/>What part of "turn the other cheek" is so complicated?<BR/>What part of "judge not that ye be not judged" is so complicated?<BR/>What part of "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" is so complicated?<BR/>What part of "blessed are the peacemakers" is so complicated?<BR/>What part of "if you want to be perfect give all that you have to the poor" is so complicated?<BR/><BR/>My strict evangelical upbringing left me spiritually molested, and unable to accept God, primarily because of the difference between preaching and practice.<BR/><BR/>Larry, you offer a bright light in a dark world, and it's unfortunate to attract some really vituperative comments. I'm pretty sure I know who's side the Big Guy would be on, but then again, I choose not to judge.Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18200796114122984465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-57070036270733935292009-01-22T11:37:00.000-06:002009-01-22T11:37:00.000-06:00Larry and several others asked what was so offensi...Larry and several others asked what was so offensive about the benediction. I can't help but notice that no one who was offended even tried to explain exactly what about it was offensive. It was just "if you don't [already] understand, you'll never get it" with no attempt to explain to those of us who don't currently share that point of view. That will certainly not help a conversation.<BR/><BR/>Please, if you're going to comment, be willing to share/explain your point of view, and not just state it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-69389544307375448382009-01-22T08:27:00.000-06:002009-01-22T08:27:00.000-06:00I think it's great that conservative folk who don'...I think it's great that conservative folk who don't share Larry's perspective are still willing to read his comments. We've got to begin somewhere. I have noticed, however, that the internet tends to bring out the nasty in us. There is no substitute for face-to-face sharing.<BR/><BR/>Alan BeanAlan Beanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18095957633114330156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-65739879172424502622009-01-22T07:36:00.000-06:002009-01-22T07:36:00.000-06:00mundiejc, thanks for the thoughtful comment. I've...mundiejc, thanks for the thoughtful comment. I've considered doing what you suggest here. I haven't for a number of reasons, but may yet. My main motive for allowing comments is the belief that often one can learn a great deal by simply "watching" or "listening" to a conversation.Larry Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06124477733714017000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-89143500040987364482009-01-21T21:19:00.000-06:002009-01-21T21:19:00.000-06:00The comments on this post make me reconsider my be...The comments on this post make me reconsider my belief that blogs are a good thing. My brother in law (who is a master's student in theological studies at LU) who is much smarter than me, tells me to stay away from blogs on almost a daily basis... yet I continue to defend blogs as being good for conversation and discussion.<BR/><BR/>I've slowly started reading more and commenting less. And each day that I come by this blog and see the multitude of ridiculous posts from Chris, and then another multitude of ridiculous posts from anonymous people from the other side of the aisle, who are like the left version of Chris, I wonder what the f*** we're even doing. This is ridiculous. No one listens to each other, many people attack individual commenters personally, because they disagree with something they said. I know RC, and while I don't agree with everything he says, he's no more inappropriate than those who have called him a racist in this post.<BR/><BR/>I include myself in what I've said above. I've been part of the problem. Its why I don't comment much anymore. I don't desire to be a problem. I desire dialogue. But its difficult to have conversations on the internet that should absolutely and always be had in the context of relationships. Words of judgement towards someone mean nothing without relationship. All they do is cause more and more division. <BR/><BR/>Larry, I think it might be time to disable comments. You know that we don't agree on everything, I being the christian anarcho-capitalist, much a product of my environment and narrative, just as your coming of age in the 60s has shaped yours. We all are dramatically shaped by what we have experienced. And all that arguing in the comment section of this blog does is re-enforce our own opinions, because we subconciously, in many cases, assign motives to those whose comments we disagree with. In conversation, that doesn't happen quite as frequently. And we surely think about our words more carefully face to face.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I still enjoy reading your blog, especially your anecdotes of life among the urban poor... many of which I can relate to myself, living where I currently live. And I think many of us out there would be better off if we we're tempted to comment and respond to every little thing we agree or disagree with.<BR/><BR/>Just my two (or three or four) cents.mundiejchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029540431840334762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-86350352389896724202009-01-21T16:24:00.000-06:002009-01-21T16:24:00.000-06:00I haven't gone there yet, Jeff, but I can understa...I haven't gone there yet, Jeff, but I can understand where you're coming from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-14772206857315082342009-01-21T14:58:00.000-06:002009-01-21T14:58:00.000-06:00Whenever I start to doubt my devout Atheism, all i...Whenever I start to doubt my devout Atheism, all it takes is a quick read of the comments here and I remember why I left the church.<BR/><BR/>What a nest of vipers!Jeffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18200796114122984465noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-37616849623010365612009-01-21T14:13:00.000-06:002009-01-21T14:13:00.000-06:00Tim Timmons: thank YOU!Tim Timmons: thank YOU!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-47550442721363651162009-01-21T07:58:00.000-06:002009-01-21T07:58:00.000-06:00Exactly my point Richard. You are playing semantic...Exactly my point Richard. You are playing semantics with your words. Looking like a fool is just a way to give yourself a free pass when it is obvious the judgment you are making on a mans character. and while your first post to larry may be respectful, you always call him disrespectful on your rebuttal. It's really a poor conversation tactic. <BR/><BR/>What about the other anonymous comments. Have you talked to any black people in your church for their opinion or did you just open your mouth first?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-90587828667058286922009-01-21T06:32:00.000-06:002009-01-21T06:32:00.000-06:00Anon 10:33:Please get the fact right. I did not ca...Anon 10:33:<BR/><BR/>Please get the fact right. I did not call Lowrey a fool. I said he came across like one. There is a big difference. You also have not looked very closely at my body of comments. I have praised Larry's posts many times. I am through with this thread. We have already beat it to death.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-38707181315287018632009-01-20T23:25:00.000-06:002009-01-20T23:25:00.000-06:00What a blessing it is to listen to all these consp...What a blessing it is to listen to all these conspicuously religious white folks - the same ones that repulsed Jesus 2000 years ago - reincarnate in the piously devout of this message board.<BR/><BR/>I am housebound and bed-fast after 23 years with my intimate friend - but no matter how bad it gets - I always have my wife get me up to witness the born again Laurel and Hardy routine acted out by Chris and P&C.<BR/><BR/>I honestly thank God for both of you daily. As a comical duet - the two of you do more to bolster the already surging ranks of Neo-Pagan Shaman and Zen Buddhist followers of The Way than could be accomplished via any independently contracted national consulting firm.<BR/><BR/>Praise be to God for the leader divinely chosen to pilot America during what may become the most turbulent 4-8 years since Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Abraham Lincoln - in this case - as a direct result of what will one day be considered the most corrupt administration in American history - certainly since Watergate. <BR/><BR/>You ROCK Barack !!! (President, that is) - as do you Larry - and you too Belinda! What an awesome time to be alive!Tim Timmonshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13602023126338275200noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-52940272293977975902009-01-20T22:27:00.000-06:002009-01-20T22:27:00.000-06:00rc, ask the black members of your church what they...rc, ask the black members of your church what they thought of Lowery's prayer. <BR/><BR/>bobby jAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-6433293394105622562009-01-20T22:13:00.000-06:002009-01-20T22:13:00.000-06:00Richard, I think you're attributing anonymous comm...Richard, I think you're attributing anonymous comments to LJ, because he has said nothing but gracious things on this blog today, in spite of many poor anonymous comments from all over the map. (His 4:44 post, which is what I assume offends you, is hardly accusatory, but inquisitive and seeks to understand.) <BR/><BR/>This isn't the first time you've challenged "seeing a side of Larry not reflecting his best" -- it seems like that's the only thing you ever comment on and it feels like a broken record. You're really using an ad hominem approach to discussion. Question a person's motives and how they're acting strangely every time you engage them in a conversation...<BR/><BR/>Larry never gave Rev. Wright a "pass". He simply acknowledged and encouraged us to understand the feelings and the source of the emotion coming from our brothers in the black community before we pass judgment. Seeking to understand someone first does not equate to a pardon.<BR/><BR/>P.S. Why would you call Lowery a fool (1:51 post)? Surely as a minister of the gospel you wouldn't use such a harsh word on a fellow minister. Practice telling that to his face. "Rev. Lowery, you are a fool." I guess using the word "acted" as a qualifier makes it okay to sit in judgment. I'm seeing a different side of you today, RC, with your harshness towards those you do not even know. On second thought, I'm seeing the same side of you as you always display on this blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-35502144408381782642009-01-20T21:50:00.000-06:002009-01-20T21:50:00.000-06:00I should have signed offRCI should have signed off<BR/><BR/>RCAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-78692700040971606552009-01-20T21:49:00.000-06:002009-01-20T21:49:00.000-06:00Larry:I tried to answer once, but my comments seem...Larry:<BR/><BR/>I tried to answer once, but my comments seemed to go into cyber never-never-land. I will try again. 1.) I too actually watched the video of Rev. Lowery's prayer instead of just reading it, and I will give him a pass, but Larry I have heard you over and over again not give the same pass to others with a more right leaning perspective. If I wanted a defense others have said it better than I could 2.) I am 50, not ancient, but old enough to clearly remember the awful day of Dr. King's assassination In my hometown of Memphis. 3) I was born and raised in Memphis and still live in Shelby County. 4.) I know many people of color and preach for a fully integrated congregation that truly reflects the diversity of our community. To be honest you seem to be more than ready to give a pass and be very understanding to people like Rev. Wright and no such thing for the remarks of conservatives. I will be more than happy to supply my full name and any other information you might need. I am not trying to hid behind "anonymous." It is just a bit easier to post that way. We all look at things from our own perspective and that makes us all a bit unfair sometimes and tonight I am seeing a side of you that I do not believe reflects you at your best.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-22886139781352291952009-01-20T21:25:00.000-06:002009-01-20T21:25:00.000-06:00Keep it up Larry!I am broken-hearted reading these...Keep it up Larry!<BR/>I am broken-hearted reading these comments. I am a middle-aged white man from a generation caught in-between. I really never knew overt racism and it has been easy for me to dismiss suffering that I never witnessed first-hand (or unintentionally ignored). I have lived, gone to school and worked for the past 2 years in East Baltimore and received an education far beyond what I intended. For any of us to assert that our lack of personal prejudice somehow nullifies the lingering effects of institutional racism and segregation is a deep and evil spiritual blindness. Reverend Lowery has earned the right to speak from now through eternity. I consider it a privilege to participate in atonement for the injustice perpetrated against children of God based on the color of their skin. We should seriously pause and consider when we pray for "justice to roll down as waters, and righteousness as a mighty stream." It is beyond comprehension to me that today's events could be viewed with anything other than awe, humility and thankfulness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-66717071694744751992009-01-20T21:04:00.000-06:002009-01-20T21:04:00.000-06:00Friends, I have just now watched and heard the pra...Friends, I have just now watched and heard the prayer offered by Revereand Joseph Lowery. Until now, I was responding to comments without actually watching and hearing the prayer. Those of you who objected and who were "disappointed" and who judged that he was race baiting, etc., I cannot tell you how much I disagree and how far off the mark you really are with your assessment. Lowery, an aged warrior for civil and human rights, prayed the prayer of a gentle, strong prophet. He employed the language of his life and of his work. You could build a semester's work in an American History class around the words of the entire prayer and pull out event after event that would illuminate his language. He added humor to his sweetness and challenge to his graciousness. Those of you who took exception to his prayer have judged him wrongly. Having now listened, I wonder if you paid attention to the entire prayer or not. Frankly, I am very disappointed in your lack of understanding. After hearing the prayer, I fear that those of you who cried "racist" or "race baiting" against this man's heart protest too much and reveal more than you intended about your own journey. Those who feel uncomfortable when someone challenges us anew to confront our racial reality as a nation and as people, need most of all to face the reasons for this discomfort. I thought the prayer was wonderful. One thing I have learned today, never comment on something like this until I've actually heard the content of the matter for myself.Larry Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06124477733714017000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-13377428619249069352009-01-20T20:49:00.000-06:002009-01-20T20:49:00.000-06:00Obviously the context of those lines in the prayer...Obviously the context of those lines in the prayer were where each group falls in the lived experience of race. Non whites are still not always treated fairly, and not all whites do what is right in regards to their attitudes and treatment of non whites. <BR/>I would say most whites do what is right most of the time in regards to race (certainly way more than when this line was first used). Many still do not. Perhaps the other white people who are offended don’t have as many racists in their family as I do (I’m also white). Just last week an acquaintance told me an Obama joke that included the N word. In that moment, I had an opportunity to do what was right, that a person of color would not have. Why? Because this person would never have made that joke in the presence of a person of color. So much racism never even comes to the attention of persons of color. It is shown only in the company of whites. At that moment we, as white people, have the opportunity to say “No, that’s inappropriate.” To do what is right.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-85813860951053644202009-01-20T20:28:00.000-06:002009-01-20T20:28:00.000-06:00I've heard enough about race today to last a lifet...I've heard enough about race today to last a lifetime. I personally think the country has gone crazy.<BR/><BR/>I hope we can move on. I hope his economic plan works but I fail to see how he can spend so much money when the country is broke. It never worked for me. I just hope there isn't mass depression, mentally, when it fails.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10713185419474601750noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-61850985697183894122009-01-20T19:13:00.000-06:002009-01-20T19:13:00.000-06:00Funny how anonymous posters get in a huff and thre...Funny how anonymous posters get in a huff and threaten to drop their anonymous support. I'll be a skeptic and say they aren't real CDM supporters anyway. LJ is right. Racism is not dead and we must continue to understand before passing judgment about what we white people think we might know about race.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9827454.post-66614405439539181582009-01-20T18:39:00.000-06:002009-01-20T18:39:00.000-06:00It is very clear that we need more conversation ab...It is very clear that we need more conversation about race in our community. I can say that I in no way meant to call white people "bad guys." That said, I will say again that we may need to be open to others whose life experience is undeniably different from our own. Building community requires less on the judgment side and more on the listening side. Of course, I hate to lose supporters, and again, intended no offense, but the last 15 years has helped me understand all that I don't know.Larry Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06124477733714017000noreply@blogger.com