The trouble with all these "basic human rights" is that eventually we will run out of other peoples money. When the government starts taking more than half your income away as taxes there will be no incentive to work hard, take risks to start a business or hire more people.
We can reform the system without going down the path of European Socialism which has failed everytime it's tried.
Obama and Pelosi failed to get this unread bill pushed through by their August recess. Let's keep the heat on!
Well you know, we have had plenty of time to reform the system and private enterprise has shown no interest.
Plenty of other people's money --no our money -- like the 20% that is the administrative cost for private insurance versus 3% for Medicare which doesn't pay for any healthcare. There shouldn't be profit in other people's illness -- which we have now in spades.
WOW! So the United Methodist (and many on this blog) believe healthcare is a "basic human right." I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Also, using John 10:10b as justification is the most pure example of not understanding scripture. Interesting how Christian-liberals use scripture to justify government funding. The UM's also throw out the "46 million Americans" who "have no insurance." The problem is that number includes ILLEGALS and millions who choose not to have insurance.
Lorlee - Loved your first comment. As long as someone is "getting involved" - you're "glad to see it." Doesn't matter if it's Socialism, you're just glad they're involved.
And your last comment - "There shouldn't be profit in other people's illness..." OK, we'll just let you decide who, where and how profit can be made. Hmmmm...goes back to that Socailism thing.
All of the interests that are currently making money out of the system are out there, so I am glad to see someone else take an interest. Nothing more, nothing less. There is a lot of misinformation and misconceptions out there.
As for socialism -- well that is another of the charged words that has lost its mean except to try and incite.
We currently spend 16% of our economy on health care with worse results than countries that spend half as much. I don't think this health care reform will go anywhere without a total rethinking of health and the actual costs versus actual benefits. Some might call it rationing, but we need to reform our thinking as well as the system. I also believe that we all need to take more responsibility for our well-being. Below are links to 2 interesting articles which address that issue.
I wish everyone that reads this blog would have seen 20/20 which was just on. John Stossel just destroyed the myth that Canadian health care is even close to what we have in America. The bottom line for me is that I just do not want to live is a socialist state and we a long on our way down that path. Anonymous 10:38, you comments were spot on.
I came to this blog specifically to post the info about 20/20 - wow, but someone beat me to it! :)
I wish everyone could see the John Stossel thing on 20/20, maybe it'll be on youtube soon?
One other thing he pointed out: Pharm. Companies and Medical Technology Companies (or whatever they are called) are very PROFIT driven.
John Stossel pointed out there are are lots of life-saving drugs, technology, etc. that wouldn't be here if it were government run. Just something to ponder about.
Did 20/20 go into the public health realities of the US compared to other developed nations? Did Stossel point out the very bad ROI that we get for the enormous amount we spend on health care? Did he talk at all about those who cannot afford to pay for "the best health care system in the world?" Did he mention the fact that more and more of us in the US are ordering our meds from Canada? Did he mention the long waits for diagnosis and treatment endured by the poor? Did he reveal the portfolio of ABC when it come to ownership share in insurance and pharm companies? Antecdotal evidence provided by examples of the mega rich from other counties coming to the US are largely irrelevant when it comes to the overall public health picture of the US versus other nations with national health care systems. Did he evaluate the strong performance of Medicare--a public health care product? Did he talk about the efficiencies of that system versus the private insurance system and its outlandish costs? Let's make sure we are comparing apples to apples. The data argues against what it seems he reported. Ask the AMA, every major corporation in the nation, as well as a growing number of hospital systems.
anonymous 10:54, did you even watch the show? I would be dead if I lived in Canada. I had bypass +4 surgery. If I would have been forced to wait I would not have made it. I believe something needs to be done to fix the current health care situation, but is the answer socialized medicine?
rc, you missed (or proved) 10:54's point exactly... your anecdotal evidence of your own life has little direct comparison to the questions 10:54 raised. You are NOT comparing the same things. Look at the overall public health data between the US and other countries and see the disparity.
I didn't miss anything. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens in a few years when the liberals get what they want. I really do hope it all works out.
You sure can identify an armchair conservative by their bigoted language... why does every discussion have to be the "us" v. "them" mentality? Why can't be just talk about what's best for the country rather than resorting to such childish polemics.
Did he talk about the fact that we have the highest rate of cardiac intervention (bypases, etc. etc) but yet have worse outcomes. Lots of cardiologists making lots of money. Please check the articles I referenced.
There is often no scientific basis for much of what is done.
Here we go again - notice that the United Methodists slogan "A justice-filled prescription for health care". Everywhere one looks in this blog, reference is made to the politically based liberation theology.
Count me among those who like government health insurance. Also add to it the basic human right of auto insurance (the whole package -liability, comprehensive, and collision). Also I believe that its a basic human right for life insrance, and also throw in homeowner's and renter's insurance!
Oh, and one more thing, speaking of "justice" is a biblical tradition and not limited to any theological construct. You can't read the Bible and miss this truth if you read seriously.
19 comments:
Glad to see a church get involved -- as I expect we will be overrun by the lobbyists and special interests.
The trouble with all these "basic human rights" is that eventually we will run out of other peoples money. When the government starts taking more than half your income away as taxes there will be no incentive to work hard, take risks to start a business or hire more people.
We can reform the system without going down the path of European Socialism which has failed everytime it's tried.
Obama and Pelosi failed to get this unread bill pushed through by their August recess. Let's keep the heat on!
Well you know, we have had plenty of time to reform the system and private enterprise has shown no interest.
Plenty of other people's money --no our money -- like the 20% that is the administrative cost for private insurance versus 3% for Medicare which doesn't pay for any healthcare. There shouldn't be profit in other people's illness -- which we have now in spades.
WOW! So the United Methodist (and many on this blog) believe healthcare is a "basic human right." I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Also, using John 10:10b as justification is the most pure example of not understanding scripture. Interesting how Christian-liberals use scripture to justify government funding. The UM's also throw out the "46 million Americans" who "have no insurance." The problem is that number includes ILLEGALS and millions who choose not to have insurance.
Lorlee - Loved your first comment. As long as someone is "getting involved" - you're "glad to see it." Doesn't matter if it's Socialism, you're just glad they're involved.
And your last comment - "There shouldn't be profit in other people's illness..." OK, we'll just let you decide who, where and how profit can be made. Hmmmm...goes back to that Socailism thing.
Anonymous -- well at least my name is up here.
All of the interests that are currently making money out of the system are out there, so I am glad to see someone else take an interest. Nothing more, nothing less. There is a lot of misinformation and misconceptions out there.
As for socialism -- well that is another of the charged words that has lost its mean except to try and incite.
We currently spend 16% of our economy on health care with worse results than countries that spend half as much. I don't think this health care reform will go anywhere without a total rethinking of health and the actual costs versus actual benefits. Some might call it rationing, but we need to reform our thinking as well as the system. I also believe that we all need to take more responsibility for our well-being. Below are links to 2 interesting articles which address that issue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/health/views/28essa.html?ref=health
http://news.yahoo.com/s/bw/20090728/bs_bw/jul2009db20090727675410;_ylt=AlP2kwFXKrJIufxCuiVfSyWb_aF4;_ylu=X3oDMTJxNDFyN3Y3BGFzc2V0A2J3LzIwMDkwNzI4L2p1bDIwMDlkYjIwMDkwNzI3Njc1NDEwBGNwb3MDNARwb3MDNARzZWMDeW5fdG9wX3N0b3JpZXMEc2xrA2hlYWx0aGNhcmVpbg--
I wish everyone that reads this blog would have seen 20/20 which was just on. John Stossel just destroyed the myth that Canadian health care is even close to what we have in America. The bottom line for me is that I just do not want to live is a socialist state and we a long on our way down that path. Anonymous 10:38, you comments were spot on.
I came to this blog specifically to post the info about 20/20 - wow, but someone beat me to it! :)
I wish everyone could see the John Stossel thing on 20/20, maybe it'll be on youtube soon?
One other thing he pointed out: Pharm. Companies and Medical Technology Companies (or whatever they are called) are very PROFIT driven.
John Stossel pointed out there are are lots of life-saving drugs, technology, etc. that wouldn't be here if it were government run. Just something to ponder about.
Another thing Stossel pointed out was so how many people flock to the US for their healthcare ---
The PRIME MINISTER of Italy came to the US for cancer treatment, as did lots of other famous people he mentioned.
Also gave several horror stories from Canada and England, but you've probably heard enought of them :)
The same people who run cars for clunkers would be running health care? Now THAT'S scary!
Did 20/20 go into the public health realities of the US compared to other developed nations? Did Stossel point out the very bad ROI that we get for the enormous amount we spend on health care? Did he talk at all about those who cannot afford to pay for "the best health care system in the world?" Did he mention the fact that more and more of us in the US are ordering our meds from Canada? Did he mention the long waits for diagnosis and treatment endured by the poor? Did he reveal the portfolio of ABC when it come to ownership share in insurance and pharm companies? Antecdotal evidence provided by examples of the mega rich from other counties coming to the US are largely irrelevant when it comes to the overall public health picture of the US versus other nations with national health care systems. Did he evaluate the strong performance of Medicare--a public health care product? Did he talk about the efficiencies of that system versus the private insurance system and its outlandish costs? Let's make sure we are comparing apples to apples. The data argues against what it seems he reported. Ask the AMA, every major corporation in the nation, as well as a growing number of hospital systems.
anonymous 10:54, did you even watch the show? I would be dead if I lived in Canada. I had bypass +4 surgery. If I would have been forced to wait I would not have made it. I believe something needs to be done to fix the current health care situation, but is the answer socialized medicine?
rc, you missed (or proved) 10:54's point exactly... your anecdotal evidence of your own life has little direct comparison to the questions 10:54 raised. You are NOT comparing the same things. Look at the overall public health data between the US and other countries and see the disparity.
I didn't miss anything. I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens in a few years when the liberals get what they want. I really do hope it all works out.
"when the liberals get what they want"
You sure can identify an armchair conservative by their bigoted language... why does every discussion have to be the "us" v. "them" mentality? Why can't be just talk about what's best for the country rather than resorting to such childish polemics.
Did he talk about the fact that we have the highest rate of cardiac intervention (bypases, etc. etc) but yet have worse outcomes. Lots of cardiologists making lots of money. Please check the articles I referenced.
There is often no scientific basis for much of what is done.
Here we go again - notice that the United Methodists slogan "A justice-filled prescription for health care". Everywhere one looks in this blog, reference is made to the politically based liberation theology.
Count me among those who like government health insurance. Also add to it the basic human right of auto insurance (the whole package -liability, comprehensive, and collision). Also I believe that its a basic human right for life insrance, and also throw in homeowner's and renter's insurance!
Sorry, Anon 8:38 AM, but homes and cars aren't guite the same as human lives.
Oh, and one more thing, speaking of "justice" is a biblical tradition and not limited to any theological construct. You can't read the Bible and miss this truth if you read seriously.
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